The London Lounge

Opinions would be welcome on the cause of this problem.



I have no idea but it seems to be a persistent problem for this tailor. I wonder if it is a cosntruction rather than a cutting issue. I notice that this tailor finishes the hem of the coat with a row of stitching. However, another tailor I use (SR) does not appear to - the cloth at the hem is folded over (and ironed) and stitched to the lining on the inside.

If you look carefully you can see the stitching at the hem of the coat and the extended front dart referred to in another thread.

Scot. This vent is opening for a few reasons but the top reason is that the front balance is short. You can see the plaid slanting up. This lifts the front and pulls the vent forward opening the vents. You can see the pulling cloth. But this is not the vents fault. It is fixed at the shoulder. The other problems seem to be possibly that the lining is gathering and opening the vent and the vent might not be tacked doen inside.... along with the folds not being held to shape while being hand sewed. The layers seem to be layered and sewn a bit short - curling the flap the wrong way. a bit tight. But the balance is the real villain here. And did your tailor mention what shaping problems did the front cut solve ? The hand stitching of the hem all around is a very nice and time consuming touch.

Scot

Would you be able to give us a full length side shot? It might make diagnosing the problem easier as we might like to see what is going on at the shoulder level, as Frank has mentioned.

Are you standing in this photo the way you were during the fittings? If you do not stand at attention, how does the side view appear? Do you normally stand erectly or with a slight forward slouch?

Cheers

The balance needs to be shifted forward at the shoulder 1/2" front ..1/2" back. Maybe more front less back..This should bring it into balance. Maybe 5/8". This will drop the front and relax the quarters and the quarters will open up a bit and cup under and not hang off. And it will place the vent where it should be. This should be caught at the first fitting of the first suit. I really dont need to see more. Its all right there.

...On second thought please do post photos as Michael suggests. I would like to see the back.
. this coat might also be touching your shoulder.

Adopting a natural posture is a surprisingly difficult thing to do! Not sure if I have succeeded here.

Your posture is fine. You have a good stature. Strong. I wish the photo was an inch higher. I would like to see the collar. This pattern needs to be opened up across the back just a bit giving it "round length" and the front needs to be opened at the breast line to give length to the front. And also I would open the front at the "full" of the chest 3/8". The total openings would be maybe 1"... SO...This means that the front has to be given length to drop the balance. And the back has to be manipulated to house your back and make content the vents and... pivot the collar to where it wants to be.[ this will also shift the coat forward a bit]. In other words..the front is an inch or a bit more short and the back could be given maybe 3/4" [maybe] rounded length. See how the vent is riding up and away ? It is not a happy vent.It is being pulled up by not enough round length at the back. Vents can tell us so much.The front is short and the back is short. I would also give you a chest dart. What thinks Mr. Alden ?

old henry wrote: ...I would also give you a chest dart...

Frank, what is the purpose of the chest dart? Is it also referred to as a hammer dart?

.It is being pulled up by not enough round length at the back. Vents can tell us so much.The front is short and the back is short. I would also give you a chest dart. What thinks Mr. Alden ?

HI Frank,

It is a balance issue as you have well detailed. I always try to give the tailor the benefit of the doubt and first wonder if the client assumed another pose during the fittings than his normal one. If I have seen this once, I have seen it a million times. If Scot is telling us he stood this way during the fittings, then the result is quite a bit off.

Both the front and back are kicking out and the vents are opening. You hit it on the nose here "It is being pulled up by not enough round length at the back." Scot, tell this to your English tailor.."the back needs to be 'passed up' (to account for the roundness in your back and shoulders" and the front (as a consequence and to find the proper balance point) must be dropped down." He will be able to adjust this from the shoulder as Frank has mentioned, Should not be a problem to fix.

Cheers

Michael. %90 of customers stand at attention in the shop. Tailors take this into account. I leave the fitting on the customers, sometimes for an hour, so they relax. But at the first encounter I am sizing them up and storing information in my noggen. Even before I break out the measuring tape. This is part of making a suit. Not ever the customers fault. And this pattern needs to be "opened up" where I specified. "Opening up" creates round length. This pattern is "flat" and Scot is not.
And CLee, My Man.. This fella needs a chest dart because he has a fullish chest. Scot was an athlete I would say. This is where the front begins to get hung up. Right along the breast pkt. The "full" of the chest. You can see the plaid going up. This will form a pocket to "house" the chest creating the "round length". Not just length. Round and full. I would divide this chest into 3 openings of the pattern. And I do not use the "hammer dart" I use my good old Henry Stewart Mitchell System Full Chest Manipulation. . The hammer dart throws cloth to the front of the pectoral but it does not give the necessary width from the armhole to the center of the chest. Mitchell does both. Although many great tailors did use this. This coat also needs a "stout dart" at the pocket which also creates "round fullness" at the waist line. But I do not know how to do this dart with this "front cut" seam. I would nail much of this on the muslin pattern tests. Then I could cut with confidence and not use the customers cloth as the guinea pig. I want to question the shoulder height also. With a new customer...get the pattern nailed down as close as possible before thinking about cutting. This is true "Bench Tailoring" I am not just "squeezing you in". Your suit is the only suit in my head and I am figuring out the puzzle 24-7.. I make it for myself first.
I am going to send Michael photos of the Round back manipulations so he can put it up.
ps... I have seen many carelessly made sloppy coats on other forums at times.. This coat is not one of them.
Correction..%98 of customers stand at attention.

ROUND BACK MANIPULATION

Frank, thank you. Fabulously concise.

Charles

Thank you CLee and thank you Michael,, And this all brings up a point. What I say up top is what bench tailoring was. All of this thought would have gone into a Benchmade suit. Bench made is not just a lot of hand work. It is one tailor sitting at a bench making only your suit from the measurements to the buttonholes and not starting another til yours is done. Day and night the tailor would think about the puzzle that is your shape and how to put it to paper. He would refer to dusty old books. He maybe had one other suit compartmentalized in his head at the same time. And as I have said many times.. What takes me 5 fittings may take an old Sicilian Maestro only two. But I get there. And I have never had a customer complain about too many fittings. This Old World process makes the suit The Tailors , The Customers , And also all of the old tailors who taught me and all of the old tailors who taught them. This is what is missing today. This is "Charm" Charm is a novelty today.

If Scot is telling us he stood this way during the fittings,

I'm not. I have no idea how I stood. I probably pay insufficient attention to my posture.

tell this to your English tailor.."

She might admit to being German or Scottish, but not English.

This pattern is "flat" and Scot is not.

He sure aint

Gentlemen, seriously, thank you for your expertise. It's a great privilege of the LL to have access to such knowledge and experience.