Economic Question

[rodes]

This topic has been discussed before and perhaps could be again. Jordan posted yesterday on the gabardine question that "...rotation is the key to preserving every suit in your wardrobe..." I surely agree. Yet in the mid-Atlantic US our temperatures can vary from below 0 to near 100 F. Since the wearable range of a suit is perhaps 35 degrees this means 5 to 6 suits each of flannels, 10-13 ounce worsteds, and frescos. The total, perhaps 18, is in keeping with the number advised by NJ Storey in his fine book, or M Alden on his medium wardrobe post. With the cost of bespoke this outlay is beyond the medium resources of the average suit wearing man. Even with fine quality RTW or MTM it could be quite a serious sum. Any thoughts on this issue?

[Simon A]

The weather here ranges from a low of -10 C in winter to 40 C in summer, with mild spring and autumn weather. I can get by with Brisa suits for three seasons, with a waistcoat in autumn and spring. Flannels, tweed suitings or heavy worsteds in winter. So the number of suits can be reduced by a third by skipping Spring/Autumn suits initially; one can invest in these later when finances allow.

[rogiercreemers]

There is a Dutch proverb that says "between dreams and deeds are laws and practical considerations". When building a wardrobe, I believe the most important factors are quality, quantity, necessity, time, and of course, budget.

Let's take the situation of an average person at around 25 years of age, first professional job, net income of about €/£2000 a month. Let's say 10-15% of that can go to clothing, because, of course, there's student debt to pay off, mortgage or rental to manage, insurance, savings, etc. That would result in 2,400 to 3,600 a year to play with. This would get you one Row-level suit, with not much change for anything else. Let's break it down otherwise: if we give ourselves three years to build the minimum wardrobe as suggested elsewhere on this forum, we have about 8000-10000 to spread over 7 suits, 6 sports jackets, 10 pairs of trousers, shirts, shoes, knitwear, etc. That would mean maximum prices of about 500 for a suit, 350 for a sports jacket, 200 for shoes and 100 for trousers. However, that does not take into account wear (especially of lower-quality, tide-over pieces) and the inevitable mistakes we all make.

Of course, there are different strategies: Hong Kong tailoring offers astonishing value for money, and good-quality RTW brands such as E&R, especially on sale, are below the target prices. Also, I cannot help feeling that this, especially for younger men, is the appropriate space for brands such as Tyrwhitt and Lewin, which offer a low threshold into dressing well, making it possible to build a solid base at that level, and then trade up as budget increases.

At the same time, during the phase of wardrobe expansion,most of the focus should be on durability and versatility, more individual or luxurious pieces can be added afterwards.

[alden]

A great way to start out would be two mid gray and one charcoal gray suit in a Brisa or equivalent cloth and a good overcoat. If you know how to dress you can wear mid gray in a thousand ways and always look attractive and professional. The dark gray is for very formal occasions and the OC for cool weather.

Cheers

M Alden

[Rowly]

If you know how to dress you can wear mid gray in a thousand ways and always look attractive and professional.Cheers

M Alden

What a great concept! I think that would justify a new thread in its own right...Suggestions for how a mid grey can be worn in a thousand different ways?

[alden]

Suggestions for how a mid grey can be worn in a thousand different ways?

Well if you have ten shirts, ten ties, ten pairs of various colored stockings, a black shoe, a brown shoe and a tan shoe and ten pocket squares..you have a good start. Can someone do the math?



Cheers

M Alden

[Simon A]

That's 30,000 iterations...

[alden]

That's 30,000 iterations...

So if you figure 240 work days a year (without vacations), you are good to go for 125 work years never wearing the same combination.



Michael

[Rowly]

That's 30,000 iterations...

So if you figure 240 work days a year (without vacations), you are good to go for 125 work years never wearing the same combination.



Michael

You guys are working too hard...124 work years is more than enough for anyone

[Gruto]

The total, perhaps 18

I believe many people can do with less than 18 suits. A 12/13 oz. worsted suit can match lots of temperatures, if you change accessories: socks (from wool to fine cotton lisle), shirts (from creamy 100's poplin to voile), shoes (from cordovan to boxcalf), ties (from silk/wool to linen).

[rogiercreemers]

There's also a shifting boundary between suits and sports coats depending on where one works. The dress requirements of City banking are not the same as those of a university, provincial law firm, medical practice, etc. I wear a suit one day every two weeks on average (academia), and spend the rest of my time in sports coats.

[JCH]

So if you figure 240 work days a year (without vacations), you are good to go for 125 work years never wearing the same combination.

Now you guys tell me. . . .

[Merc]

i'm not a huge fan of rotation regimens

i dont do it at all with my car tires and im not fanatic about it with suits or trousers.

as for tires...id rather replace the two that wear out sooner than move all four around..and driving in new york is a bit like driving in a war zone so,
you periodically ruin and replace a tire due to pot holes. so no tire rotation

Similarly: although i would never wear the same thing two days in a row (especially shoes) some would say that i overwear things. in july and august i'll wear my 3 or 4 lightest/coolest pairs of pants and that's about it- dont care of i wear them out sooner. then i'll replace them. And similarly, although i have 3 of what most here would call lightweight suits, i generally try to avoid jackets in those hot months and when i do wear them for meetings it is only the very lightest of them-a light color unlined 6 oz. fabric suit

again i dont care if it wears out faster

the clothes are a tool meant to be used-- and though i take reasonable care of them, if they wear out, then they did me good service

[Rowly]

I think it is good to try to develop a balance. Maintenance is important and it is good to not over wear things. However, If you are too precious with your clothes, you may not wear them enough. You don't want to have an umbrella that you're so protective of that you're afraid of getting it wet. I have found it useful to rotate and rest my clothes, but also to force myself to enjoy my clothes on a more regular basis and not be tempted to keep them for particular occasions. Of course, as my wardrobe has grown, this has become the norm..I think sometimes you need to push yourself a bit to get things to become the norm more quickly, and this is an important part of the well dressed man's learning curve.

[cathach]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is overcoats. I think one really solid overcoat for winter and one properly waterproof mac/overcoat (navy ventile I'm thinking), would cut out the need for very heavy weight suits i.e. the 5/6 flannel suits.

I'm in the above camp myself as is perhaps not surprising given the age profile of Web 2.0 and for my first year I've had two suits made, one relatively sober blue Donegal and and a black stripe. The black covers the range of formal business, interview, and formal occasion (funerals) I might have to attend regularily during the year. The Donegal covers the more relaxed occasions where a suit is appropriate but shouldn't be too sober. That said I'm fortunate enough in not having to wear a suit every day to work as that saves on wear & tear.