Shorter ties with waistcoats?

[YoungLawyer]

Dear all,

I've started wearing waistcoats much more frequently, expecially after my last bespoke project which was a three-piece suit with high-waisted trousers. Instantly, I had a problem with my ties, in that the standard length is so long that it has to be tucked into the trousers. It occurred to me that it would be a good idea to find a source of shorter ties. It also occurred to me that most of my ties are thick enough to disrupt my quite close-fitting waistcoats (Both suit, and, having thought about it more frequently, my formal waistcoats for morning dress as well). Do I assume correctly that the well-dressed chap wears a much shorter tie with a waistcoat than with a two-piece suit, where the tie has to fill a much larger gap? Certainly, the formal 'Ascot', makes a lot of sense, in that it fills the gap between collar and waistcoat, but doesn't trail all the way down to the waist. In any case, are there any suppliers of shorter ties in London?

[Simon A]

I think you will find the length of the tie should be determined by your body size and the rise of your trousers. When I changed to higher rise trousers, I started buying shorter ties. You could try David Hober at www.samhober.com, he will make ties of whatever length you wish. The quality is very good and the prices are reasonable.

[Cufflink79]

Don't forget to take your neck size into account as well.

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

[Jordan Marc]

The best handmade silk ties consist of three sections, the front blade, the neck and the tail. When tied using either a four-in-hand or half windsor knot (the only two styles worthy of a gentleman), the point of the blade should just graze the top of the waistband of the trousers, which should be worn on the natural waist. A three-piece lounge suit with trousers worn on the hips is disgraceful. It doesn't matter if you're short-waisted or long-waisted. Wear them where they should be worn! If you're not keen on
wearing braces, you can opt for self-fabric side adjusters with buckles. Better yet, ask your tailor for
brace buttons as well as side adjusters.

Any well-made tie can be shortened or narrowed. It's a relatively easy alteration if you can find a talented seamstress or tailor. Chances are you have some favorite ties in your collection that for one reason or another need some updating. There is more to a beautifully made tie than you might imagine.
Don't attempt to do it yourself. Leave it to the pros and don't haggle about price. Altering a tie is time
consuming and is principally done by hand.

JMB

[YoungLawyer]

JM,
Your dire warning about low-waisted trousers falls on the ears of the converted - and braces are far more comfortable! As I've a 14.5"collar, and am 6' or thereabouts, all my rtw ties are a good 15" too long when worn with a four-in-hand. I can't be the only person who has that problem, and I thought that sufficient for there to be a source of rtw ties out there. If alterations are the way forward, then that's best. I haven't looked at any vintage ties recently, and I wonder whether pre-war ties were significantly shorter, when 2 pce suits were not the norm. You don't, then, think that the waistcoat would sit better if the tie ended some way above the waistcoat? Logically, if it never has to show, why should it reach down so far?
Thank you for the suggestions so far.

[couch]

YoungLawyer, I dont recall which side of the pond you're on. If you are in the U.S., and want to have some favorite ties shortened (or just cleaned, or retipped or relined), as well as adding some new ones from Sam Hober, I've had good luck with this resource:

http://www.tiecrafters.com/alterations.html

[Jordan Marc]

YoungLawyer:

Silk ties worn in the 1920s and 1930s were invariably shorter and wider than their counterparts in the second half of the twentieth century. Think of the neckwear in the Jazz Age and the Art Deco period.
Many of the silks at the time were hand-painted or relied on screens that were much smaller than what silkmakers use today in, say, Lake Como. The shorter and wider ties carried over to the 1940s when men were in uniform. Fabric was scarce and patterns were non-existent during the war.

As to your question about whether or not ties should be shorter when wearing a waistcoat, a three-piece lounge lounge suit has the option of being worn as a two-piece or a three-piece outfit. It really
depends upon the weather and how dapper you want to be.

A final thought. If you purchase your neckwear from a tiemaker and he is unwilling to modify your ties,
shop elsewhere.

JMB