Anderson & Sheppard Prices

[Guest]

I agree that the quality of the cloth, and not its stiching together, is the prime determinant in a suit's longevity.

In any case, justifying the expense of a bespoke suit based on its supposed longevity is a pretty specious argument.

Does anyone really still buy a bespoke suit because they think that it's going to last so much longer than a RTW?

Does anyone really still think that spending $5000 on a bespoke rather than $3000 bespoke is getting them a better suit?

I'll bet that the Romanian bespoke suits are every bit as well made as those made in London.

Why wouldn't they be?

And why should I feel better about spending $5000 than say $1000?

Doesn't make any sense to me. If I could travel to Romania, I would. And If I lived there, I would be feeling pretty smug about the bargains I was getting.

[Guest]

I agree that the quality of the cloth, and not its stiching together, is the prime determinant in a suit's longevity.

In any case, justifying the expense of a bespoke suit based on its supposed longevity is a pretty specious argument.

Does anyone really still buy a bespoke suit because they think that it's going to last so much longer than a RTW?

Does anyone really still think that spending $5000 on a bespoke rather than $3000 bespoke is getting them a better suit?

I'll bet that the Romanian bespoke suits are every bit as well made as those made in London.

Why wouldn't they be?

And why should I feel better about spending $5000 than say $1000?

Doesn't make any sense to me. If I could travel to Romania, I would. And If I lived there, I would be feeling pretty smug about the bargains I was getting.

Great!

Let's have a "blind" test between a Romanian suit and one from Savile Row and one from one of the NYC tailors!

[Guest]

This has been an interesting thread.

It seems to me that there is great contradiction within the London Lounge.

Despite the Certified Artisan Programme and the continuous references to A&S alumni, Rubinacci, etc..., the new consensus view is that it is always preferable to seek out some obscure local practitioner, previously unpatronised by any known soul, and motivated entirely without the corruption of the big bucks. Now assuming that we all had the time and inclination to inspect every basement in every alley we come across in search of these gems, there is still no guarantee that we will come upon anything of use, and should we come upon anything at all, there is then absolutely no guarantee of any level of workmanship that the bigger houses offer (this obviously has nothing to do with customer satisfaction, but it is nonetheless a comfort when undertaking a commission).
My point being, surely the London Lounge is here so we can help eachother, not send eachother in the wrong direction in order to guard our precious secrets. (I have seen beautiful results from members of the CAP programme, and this is not to demean their value.) These underrated, undiscovered artisans that may offer better value or simply a different experience altogether, are just not traceable without recommendations and introductions, and this is exactly where the LL is so useful. If, as a result of its success and its growth, users are now loathe to share, discuss, and compare their discoveries for fear of sending too many in their own direction, then the LL is failing.
It would be interesting to hear the views of any of the CAP affiliated practitioners.

[Guest]

I'll bet that the Romanian bespoke suits are every bit as well made as those made in London.

Why wouldn't they be?

And why should I feel better about spending $5000 than say $1000?

That's why we need to do our own "blind" test under the totally objective and scientific auspices of The London Lounge!

If the Romanian (or Vietnamese or Senegalese or Thai or Mexican or Alaskan) tailors are just as good as the tailors of Savile Row and other major cities, then why are the rich, powerful, and famous still using such tailors? Why haven't the moguls abandoned Savile Row, Madison Avenue, and Naples?

[Guest]

It's been a long time since the 'rich, powerful and famous' could be looked to for discernment.

[Guest]

First of all, I do not think I ever wrote that my Romanian tailor is as good as Centofanti. I don't think he is as knowledgeable, and he is a lot younger so this is no surpriise. Moguls use London, Paris and NYC tailors because that is where moguls live. They do not travel to Bucharest in general.

If anyone cares to look, I think I tried to rate my tailors objectively on AAAC. I would refer to that post for my assessment of the relative merits of these tailors. I cannot comment on Savile Row tailors because I have never used any. I used Ambrosi for trousers and I take him to be the benchmark, for trousers.

[Guest]

I went into AAAC and retreived my rating of Centofanti and my Romanian tailor. This is as honest and straightforward as I can be. Let no one accuse me of "cloaking" anything in the future or I shall have kittens.

"I would suggest construction/fit/style/flexibility/cost...I would rate my beloved Centofanti 9/10/8/7/$2000, with the last number representing the cost CMT of a suit. My Romanian tailor would be 7/10/5/6/$160." Ambrosi trouser maker and Bugelli shirtmaker would be "10" in the construction domain but could not otherwise be rated according to this system.

[Guest]

David,
I think that your rating idea was quite a good one and am sorry that it never got off the ground. I do not see any reason that Ambrosi could not be ranked. Based on my experience he would be a 10 for styling, fit and construction and a 7 for flexibility. I give him that rating in jest as he steered me in a particular direction at his shop, but assured me that in the future he would make whatever it was that I liked. He and his son are wonderful to deal with and very friendly.

As far as A&S and pricing, I do not have any experience with them or with anybody else on SR. My bespoke experience is with a tailor whose rates and reputation in the bespoke world are similar and I have been well taken care of and very pleased with my results. I do think that in many ways you get what you pay for, unless you have the ability to really stay on top of the tailor and instruct him, and don't mind some difficulties in communication that arise from using some tailors who are not used to dealing with a more international clientele. We must face the fact that the American need for paperwork and communication is second to none!

I don't really want either of these issues and find myself willing to pay for the lack of bother and smooth service. I also do not find myself wanting a formula as strict as A&S seems to be. I guess that what I am getting at is the fact that time is also money and if I need to spend time worrying and instructing than I am paying more than the final bill. Everybody needs to make their own determination and do their own calculus, but the observations brought up in this thread are very good ones.

Matt

[Guest]

I completely agree with you about the time factor. I fiddle with tailors like my Romanian one because this is a sort of hobby. I have continued to send him fabric because this really is time-efficient for me. But were I a short walk or taxi/bus ride from my tailor my calculations might be different. I am terribly lazy, the measure of which is that I hesitate travelling to Centofanti's workshop because this involves a 15 minute car ride there and back.

Ambrosi could not be judged against the others in areas other than construction, because he only makes trousers. But your ratings sound entirely credible. I guess one would like to throw his CMT charge for trousers into the mix.

[Guest]

My point being, surely the London Lounge is here so we can help each other, not send each other in the wrong direction in order to guard our precious secrets. (I have seen beautiful results from members of the CAP programme, and this is not to demean their value.) These underrated, undiscovered artisans that may offer better value or simply a different experience altogether, are just not traceable without recommendations and introductions, and this is exactly where the LL is so useful.

Agreed. Speaking as a younger member of the Lounge, the amazing wealth and abundance of first-rate information found within these posts provide an education into the sartorial arts and artisan made products that would be hard to match anywhere else. I hope that over time, as the LL grows, etc., the members here do not become reluctant to share their own "hidden gems" in fear that a flood of new customers will corrupt their artisan of choice. I know of the line, to paraphrase, "Once you find a great tailor (or insert shoemaker, pantsmaker, jeweler, shirtmaker, leather goods maker, etc.), hold onto him and tell no one". I'm just not sure how beneficial that is in today's world where access to such artisans is more scarce than in the past, especially when the audience of those you'd be telling would truly appreciate such information...i.e. those of us here in the LL.

Apologies for that being off the A&S prices topic.

- Jackson

[Guest]

... I do not think...my Romanian tailor is as good as Centofanti. I don't think he is as knowledgeable, and he is a lot younger ...

Your tailor would be delighted with this compliment, because in spite of his youthtful appearence he is well over seventy! At this age, "much younger" would throw Centofanti over 90, which I presume is not the case

Costi

[Guest]

... I do not think...my Romanian tailor is as good as Centofanti. I don't think he is as knowledgeable, and he is a lot younger ...

Your tailor would be delighted with this compliment, because in spite of his youthtful appearence he is well over seventy!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Could it be an old Transylvanian secret????

RJ

[Guest]

... I do not think...my Romanian tailor is as good as Centofanti. I don't think he is as knowledgeable, and he is a lot younger ...

Your tailor would be delighted with this compliment, because in spite of his youthtful appearence he is well over seventy! At this age, "much younger" would throw Centofanti over 90, which I presume is not the case

Costi

Close -- Centofanti is 89

[Guest]

First of all, I do not think I ever wrote that my Romanian tailor is as good as Centofanti. I don't think he is as knowledgeable, and he is a lot younger so this is no surpriise. Moguls use London, Paris and NYC tailors because that is where moguls live. They do not travel to Bucharest in general.

If anyone cares to look, I think I tried to rate my tailors objectively on AAAC. I would refer to that post for my assessment of the relative merits of these tailors. I cannot comment on Savile Row tailors because I have never used any. I used Ambrosi for trousers and I take him to be the benchmark, for trousers.

Cann you send me a PM I am visit Bucharest in August, so I am very interessed in a Romanian tailor.

Send the PM to TimMureau

[Guest]

If you do go to a Romanian tailor bring your own cloth and buttons.