Worried to take the bespoke plunge

[Guest]

My advice to you would be to find another hobby other than bespoke clothing. You’ll probably think, look, and feel just fine with well made off the rack clothing. I would suggest trying high end audio where there some resale value there when you get bored with a particular item. Audio provides an endless amount of minutiae and opportunities for endless tweaking.

Also, some nice person with a whip who has hourly rates might be a better alternative than the agony that you will (because we all do in one way or another) encounter with dealing than makers of bespoke clothing, most of whom are very nice and good people.

If you really decide to start pushing string, some of the names mentioned here are a good place to start.

Hartline

[Guest]

Are there any makers who are really known to be problem free or who have consistently not disappointed you?

Thinking some more about your very first request, one solution may be to go to my "bespoke lab" -- W.W. Chan. Chan is very easy to deal with and rarely disappoints. And contrary to one famous writer's experience, my Chan stuff is still going strong after almost five years.

Up until a year or so ago, Chan accepted customers own fabric -- which meant that it was ~$500 to get a sport coat and ~$700 for a 3pc suit. Given that this was considerably less than any of the other tailor and the quality was -- well -- decent, I used Chan for many bespoke "experiments" to the point where I could send them a fabric and they would mail me a suit back which would be completely error free. The trousers, vest and jacket all fit perfectly (including the sleeve lengths Manton!).

The Chan jacket has less-skilled handwork than any bespoke tailor -- but the fit and the cut is very good because one can make infinite tweaks to the pattern and Chan is very meticulous when it comes to keeping the pattern updated with your preferences. Shattuck, Raphael and Nicolosi have all commented favorably on my Chan garments (although -- Nicolosi -- once he found out that the jacket was made in HK said that it "lookay cheep!"). Chan will offer at most one fitting in NY for the first suit -- in HK, you can have as many fittings as you need. They will also ask for 100% payment upfront.

So if you have some idea of what you are looking for -- sample garments, photos, sketches, description, etc. -- you could over 2-3 suits get a very well fitting suit from Chan. The one issue though is that Chan no longer accepts COM -- but does have some nice books including the entire Harrisons/P&H range. They charge ~$1500 for a 2pc suit in Harrisons fabric and less for most others. Dr. Teplitz also has considerable experience with Chan -- as do several other posters.

For what you are looking for -- they may be the best solution. If you do go to them, please mention that Mr. Seitelman sent you!!!

All the best,

Smooth Jazz

[Guest]

This is a schizo post.

The New Yorkers seem to prefer London tailors with real reservations about the NYC tailors.

Other experienced bespoke clients recommend RTW or indeed visiting Hong Kong tailors, rather than full bespoke.

Is no one happy with their bespoke tailor anymore?

[Guest]

I'm happy with mine - Henri de la Piscine.

RJ

[Guest]

You actually like them better than your past fave Darryn Be'Homme?

Smooth Jazz

I'm happy with mine - Henri de la Piscine.

RJ

[Guest]

A successful bespoke product requires a positive collaboration between the artisan and the client (the artisan is probably 90-95% of this equation but the client does matter!!!) as well as patience, creativity and determination. In addition, with some tailors, the client needs to really push to get what he/she really wants. None of this really stops most of us here from not using certain tailors (in fact, their idiosyncrasies may even be somewhat endearing). However, some of these factors may be more frustrating to someone with no prior bespoke experience and lack of knowledge of what to expect.

Smooth Jazz

This is a schizo post.

The New Yorkers seem to prefer London tailors with real reservations about the NYC tailors.

Other experienced bespoke clients recommend RTW or indeed visiting Hong Kong tailors, rather than full bespoke.

Is no one happy with their bespoke tailor anymore?

[Guest]

A successful bespoke product requires a positive collaboration between the artisan and the client (the artisan is probably 90-95% of this equation but the client does matter!!!) as well as patience, creativity and determination. In

Does anybody think that LL members get worse, rather than better, bespoke results through over collaboration?

[Guest]

Personally I have seen it go both ways -- worse and much, much better

A successful bespoke product requires a positive collaboration between the artisan and the client (the artisan is probably 90-95% of this equation but the client does matter!!!) as well as patience, creativity and determination. In

Does anybody think that LL members get worse, rather than better, bespoke results through over collaboration?

[Guest]

And I have a $5,500 mistake because of over collaboration. I should have kept my inner designer to myself and let the tailor do his work. Now....I know better than to interfere with the basics.

[Guest]

My experience is the flipside of Smoothjazz's.

I like every suit I have gotten from Raphael, and the most recent one is the best of all. He has turned out a consistent product, and done what I asked for. There have been one or two mistakes, but nothing major. He has even made certain changes to his usual cut for me. Nothing drastic, but I ended up with something closer to my own personal preference as a result. He has also been timely with each one, taking about two months per on average.

My experience with Nicolosi, on the other hand, was the reverse. The suit never fit, in spite of multiple fittings. In the end, he just gave up on it, and would alternatively either refuse to acknowledge certain problems or say that they were minor, that no tailor ever achieves 100% perfection, and that he would do better next time.

I agree with everything posted about Logsdail.

[Guest]

Place one suit order, have it finished, and wear it for a season before ordering more.

You won't have too much invested in money, time, and energy.

At that time you'll see if you like the garment, the tailor, and the shop's way of doing business.

An alterative (if you need a few suits) is trying two or more tailors at the same time and see which one is best for you on the final garment, delivery times, pricing, tailor's personality, etc.

Good luck.

Mark Seitelman

[Guest]

Manton:

As I mentioned on my post, I have seen Raph make some very nice garments -- I was indeed referring to you, Dopey and (even though you guys have no reason to like each other) Marc Grayson/Goldstein (surprisingly enough, never heard Raph say a good word about him when he is by his own statements a very experienced (tried tons of tailors before settling in Raph) bespoke customer and probably Raph's highest volume client).

For the record, Raph made me some flat-fronted odd trousers that were truly sublime. The first suit I got from Raph was also quite decent as first suits go. Subsequent suit jackets unfortunately were not as good -- which when combined with the time delays -- was quite frustrating and required several unneccesary fittings.

This contrasts this with my experience with A&S -- where we were able to lock down the jacket pattern in one fitting (it was close to 100% perfect the first time around) and never needed more than one fitting on any SB suit (a subsequent DB suit took two fittings). In contrast to what has been said about them on these forums, I found A&S to be quite flexible with respect to a few style details I like.

On Nicolosi, I have always thought your Nicolosi suit looked quite good. Someone asked about collaboration -- Nicolosi made upon my request two completely unlined and unpadded mohair suits for the summer that are probably the best suits I have. He did not want to -- but he and I both agree that those are two of the finest suits we have ever seen or worn. I have seen collaborations go horribly wrong sometimes -- especially where the client either does not know what he wants or where the maker is incapable of producing what is asked.

So what does this all mean -- (1) as Mark S said, certain tailors work out better for certain people; (2) the only way to arrive at the one or two tailors you would choose to work with is trial and error (which given the high cost of these garments can be a very expensive process); and (3) regardless of the quality of the ultimate product, in my experience, the NY crowd (with the exceptions noted above) is more difficult to deal with than the UK tailors I have seen.

My experience is the flipside of Smoothjazz's.

I like every suit I have gotten from Raphael, and the most recent one is the best of all. He has turned out a consistent product, and done what I asked for. There have been one or two mistakes, but nothing major. He has even made certain changes to his usual cut for me. Nothing drastic, but I ended up with something closer to my own personal preference as a result. He has also been timely with each one, taking about two months per on average.

My experience with Nicolosi, on the other hand, was the reverse. The suit never fit, in spite of multiple fittings. In the end, he just gave up on it, and would alternatively either refuse to acknowledge certain problems or say that they were minor, that no tailor ever achieves 100% perfection, and that he would do better next time.

I agree with everything posted about Logsdail.

[Guest]

Whoops! Forgot to sign the last post.

Smooth Jazz

[Guest]

Smooth, my main point was to agree with your claim that, for whatever reason, some tailor/client combinations are like chocolate and peanut butter, while others are oil and water. I'm not sure why this is, but it is. The message board tendency to fawn over some and bash the hell out of others is often misplaced.

I agree that your Nicolosi suits are great. I disagree about mine; it was terrible. I know you are unhappy with Raph, and I know why. Yet he has done great work for me.

In the end, I would not call either of those guys a bad tailor. For whatever reason, one of them works for me but not for you, and the other one works for you but not for me. It's not so simple to say one is good, the other is bad. Not that you said that; you said the opposite. But others tend to think in those terms, and I think it is just false.

[Guest]

Agree completely -- could not have said it any better

Smooth Jazz

Smooth, my main point was to agree with your claim that, for whatever reason, some tailor/client combinations are like chocolate and peanut butter, while others are oil and water. I'm not sure why this is, but it is. The message board tendency to fawn over some and bash the hell out of others is often misplaced.

I agree that your Nicolosi suits are great. I disagree about mine; it was terrible. I know you are unhappy with Raph, and I know why. Yet he has done great work for me.

In the end, I would not call either of those guys a bad tailor. For whatever reason, one of them works for me but not for you, and the other one works for you but not for me. It's not so simple to say one is good, the other is bad. Not that you said that; you said the opposite. But others tend to think in those terms, and I think it is just false.