How can I refine my second suit? Pics included

[hectorm]

... the 3 button stance would not be my first choice for your frame. But if you do go for it, make sure it's a 3 roll 2 with some serious rolling of the lapel down to the middle button.

Would you regard the 3-button as being suited for tall men? I was thinking about a three button (with the roll reaching the first button, giving me the option to button it though I do not intend to). But would that necessarily be unsuitable for my frame?

I'm tempted to give you the usual rap and say that everything depends on everything. But for practical reasons I'll stick to my advice above. Everything else equal, with a 3 button roll just to the first, you'll get brief lapels and run the risk of looking shorter than you are, which I believe is not what you want. In the case of a tall man this could be the desired effect.

[Costi]

Marbury,

Your coat is not much different from the Duke's in overall appearance. His quarters open somewhat more dramatically and the coat has a different button stance, but both coats are shorter than we are used to see today and with very open quarters.
Perhaps a bit more drape in the chest would help give the coat the extra "shaping" you desire - but just a bit. The waist is pretty well defined, but if you add a little in the chest, the drop will appear more pronounced (without having to actually take in the waist).
I prefer a shorter coat myself. Perhaps this one could be just a little longer (1 - 1.5 cm), but it would take a head-to-toe picture to judge that. There is another factor to consider: the more open the quarters, the shorter the coat appears. You can either leave the length as it is and reduce the quarter opening, or make a coat just that bit longer and reduce the opening angle for the effect you admire in those other pictures. However, I think you're better off on the side of the shorter coat, within reasonable limits.
3B and dramatically open quarters work together well, you think? Perhaps a 3 roll to 2 or 2.5 is a better idea.

I agree that the coat looks nice as it is, I see no flagrant issues with it. All of the above is based on your desire to change the design. Indeed, the issue is not so much refining the tailoring details, as wearing it confidently. You'll never have a perfect coat, but you can learn to be happy with the coat you have on your shoulders, as it is, and wear it well, making the best of it.
That's not to say you should accept substandard work from your tailor, but that your attitude makes more impact than fine tuning the shoulders and buttons.

[couch]

MVM, normally I would agree that the coat is too short. However, we can't see your entire body in the photo so it's impossible to gauge the proportions of your legs or really judge the width of your hips. If your legs are proportionately short, compared with your torso, your shorter coat may work well for you. The pockets/flaps may be just a bit large and possibly low for such a short coat, and a very slight reduction in the amount of opening in the quarters might look more understated. But some opening in the quarters helps accentuate the apparent length of the legs (as the PoW's photo nicely shows), so a very closed coat would probably not be your best look. I agree with Alden that the general shape of your jacket looks pretty good; if when you are wearing wool trousers and a properly tucked shirt, you think your hips are a bit wide for your shoulders, you might extend the shoulders just slightly -- maybe a quarter-inch per side. Extending the shoulders will by itself add some cloth to the chest, so if you wanted a more defined waist, your tailor could achieve it without having to nip in the actual waist dimension much if any.

Should you choose to extend the shoulders, the tradeoff will be that your upper arms will not fill out the sleeve heads as much, so the line of the sleeve where it joins the shoulder will fall more vertically and look a bit more angular. Look at Cary Grant in any jacket from the mid-30s to the mid-40s to see this effect. He had narrow shoulders, so he extended the jacket shoulders to balance his large head and make them look more in proportion to his height; the drawback was that his upper sleeves looked a little more hollow when he moved. Some of his jackets had quite a bid of wadding to minimize this effect, and the more robust cloths of the era also helped.

But if when your shirt and trousers are properly tidy, your hips don't look wide, there's no need to extend the shoulders. If you wanted a tad more drape to allow a more defined waist, there's no harm, but I wouldn't add much. The jacket doesn't look excessively 'clean' in the chest to me in its current form.

[marburyvmadison]

Thank you for the advice.

I have a rather elementary question though -- what are the key differences between a sports coat and a blazer.

Visited my tailor today and he seemed surprised that I asked for a checked number from Lesser's 8-9 oz collection to be made up as an odd jacket.

Is it the case that some checked fabrics won't count as a sports coat fabric despite its, well, colour and design? Or does it boil down to weight?

[rogiercreemers]

Perhaps you could indicate exactly which check you were thinking of?

In general, where worsted wool is concerned, I have the impression that many classical tailors feel that - with the exception of solid navy - there is a separation between suiting bunches and jacketing bunches (with clear jacketing patterns, such as the Hardy Worsted Alsport or P&H Glorious Twelfth). While there is some overlap (country suits from the earlier bunches, for example), I've found that it is more accepted to have jacketing cloth made up as a suit than vice versa.

[Rowly]

I think that for a checked pattern to work as a suit, the checks should not stand out too much beyond close range. Hold it at arm's length and get a feel for it and hopefully the pattern will become less visible. On the other hand, a sports jacket will look better if the checks are visible, otherwise it may look like an orphaned suit jacket. If the pattern is definitely sporty and not suiting, then there is no problem for a sports jacket. Worsted alsport have nice suiting in country patterns for suits. They also have gun clubs etc, which are more for jacketing...all the same weight, and from the same book. I hope this helps.

[marburyvmadison]

Thank you Rowly and Rogiercreemers.

The Lesser cloth I had originally wanted to have made up as a sports coat is depicted in Picture 6 (immediately below). Would this be too 'suity'?



This is another option from Holland and Sherry



I know this is potentially bespoke heresy, what with the choice of such light weights, however, I do need to keep to fabrics below 10 oz because I'm just resilient to cold (harking from the East Coast). London's 'cold' is probably the East Coast's Spring.

[Simon A]

If you have the charisma to wear a boldly-checked casual suit, go for it. Trust your instinct. If you decide you don't like it, just split the suit into odd jacket and odd trousers.

Peter Chong shows how it can look in a LL POW

If you are averse to the heat, why not go for a LL Linen POW check?

[Scot]

I think the suitability of a cloth for an odd coat depends as much on the texture and finish as it does the pattern. The pattern of the Lesser cloth would work perfectly well as an odd coat if it had a little nap but I think a smoothly finished worsted in this pattern would do better as a suit. There were some very nice patterns of a similar kind in the Hardy Riviera book which worked nicely for odd coats because they had a flannel like finish.

[rogiercreemers]

I would have no problem wearing this pattern as an odd coat, but from a classical tailoring point of view, this is purely suiting. The HFW Chatsworth bunch might have something interesting:

[hectorm]

The Lesser cloth I had originally wanted to have made up as a sports coat is depicted in Picture 6 (immediately below). Would this be too 'suity'?

I think that Lesser blue PoW in Picture 6 would make a very versatile warm weather odd jacket. I like it.
However I would not wear it with trousers of the texture and pattern seen on that grey patch (if that is what it is). I think a jacket with that finish requires some thin plain worsted cloth in grey (or maybe also tan).
I also like Simon A´s advice regarding spliting the suit.
There was a time in which every suit´s jacket was an odd jacket during the week-end.

[marburyvmadison]

The Lesser cloth I had originally wanted to have made up as a sports coat is depicted in Picture 6 (immediately below). Would this be too 'suity'?

I think that Lesser blue PoW in Picture 6 would make a very versatile warm weather odd jacket. I like it.
However I would not wear it with trousers of the texture and pattern seen on that grey patch (if that is what it is). I think a jacket with that finish requires some thin plain worsted cloth in grey (or maybe also tan).
I also like Simon A´s advice regarding spliting the suit.
There was a time in which every suit´s jacket was an odd jacket during the week-end.

Indeed. If I were to choose the Lesser POW, I'd have well worn it with tan/grey trousers that are thinner. I was using the grey cloth as a marker for both fabrics (so that there is some visual similarity in both photographs). The grey cloth is interesting, albeit more suitable for heavier coats.

Thank you rogiercreemers for pointing me in the direction of the HFW chatsworth brunch.

[cathach]

I know this is potentially bespoke heresy, what with the choice of such light weights, however, I do need to keep to fabrics below 10 oz because I'm just resilient to cold (harking from the East Coast). London's 'cold' is probably the East Coast's Spring.

I don't think I could agree with you there, tweeds and flannels are and were prized in these islands precisely because they suit the climate. In absolute terms we rarely get very cold weather compared to other parts, however its is a damp chill that strikes straight to the bones. Its around 50F here at the moment in Ireland but you couldn't go out in even a 16oz three-piece tweed. I think in a 10oz worsted you'd develop rheumatism getting off the plane.

[marburyvmadison]

I know this is potentially bespoke heresy, what with the choice of such light weights, however, I do need to keep to fabrics below 10 oz because I'm just resilient to cold (harking from the East Coast). London's 'cold' is probably the East Coast's Spring.

I don't think I could agree with you there, tweeds and flannels are and were prized in these islands precisely because they suit the climate. In absolute terms we rarely get very cold weather compared to other parts, however its is a damp chill that strikes straight to the bones. Its around 50F here at the moment in Ireland but you couldn't go out in even a 16oz three-piece tweed. I think in a 10oz worsted you'd develop rheumatism getting off the plane.

Is that so even for London? Haven't been here long enough but according to weather forecasts, it does seem that temperature in London's winter is relatively warm compared to Michigan's mean winter temperature which is -8 to -12 in the day, and -14 and below at night. When you can take that, you can probably take anything, well, except winter in Russia.

I intend to wear, possibly, a cashmere pullover or a vest beneath the coat.

[Concordia]

The Lesser cloth I had originally wanted to have made up as a sports coat is depicted in Picture 6 (immediately below). Would this be too 'suity'?



T

If you want it not to look like a suit jacket, then yes.