Economic Question

[alden]

A great way to start out would be two mid gray and one charcoal gray suit in a Brisa or equivalent cloth and a good overcoat.

A good overcoat is a necessity, not an option, if you live in a climate that requires one.

[cathach]

I wholeheartedly agree with you, the only trouble being that it simply must be bespoke. Its impossible to get the right weight for the rain, fog and damp of Ireland in RTW.

The coat I wear most is a black RTW woven by Dungloe in the 1960s. Its a 'Crombie' type cloth but twice the weight of the stuff they sell now. It was one of the many mills in Co. Donegal that has sadly gone the way of the dodo. All you can seem to get is these bloody 'car coats', that don't cover the knee and would let even a wet breeze through.

[Simon A]

A second-hand overcoat is a good option if finances are very constrained, particularly if the cut is generous like a raglan. Vintage menswear stores often have online stores, and for less than $100 + some alterations one can inherit a heavy overcoat in a classic cut and fabric with another twenty years wear in it. One can trade up to a bespoke overcoat later when finances allow.

[Costi]

If you don't have an elegant grandpa, borrow someone else's

[Costi]

i'm not a huge fan of rotation regimens

i dont do it at all with my car tires and im not fanatic about it with suits or trousers.

as for tires...id rather replace the two that wear out sooner than move all four around..and driving in new york is a bit like driving in a war zone so,
you periodically ruin and replace a tire due to pot holes. so no tire rotation

Similarly: although i would never wear the same thing two days in a row (especially shoes) some would say that i overwear things. in july and august i'll wear my 3 or 4 lightest/coolest pairs of pants and that's about it- dont care of i wear them out sooner. then i'll replace them. And similarly, although i have 3 of what most here would call lightweight suits, i generally try to avoid jackets in those hot months and when i do wear them for meetings it is only the very lightest of them-a light color unlined 6 oz. fabric suit

again i dont care if it wears out faster

the clothes are a tool meant to be used-- and though i take reasonable care of them, if they wear out, then they did me good service

I'm with you on this, Merc!

When I fall in love...
oh, and I do fall in love... with this pair of linen trousers with their refined ivory and gray small houndstooth, or this plain cafe-au-lait linen shirt, or this blue Brisa blazer... and when I do...
It will be forever
Or I'll never fall in love
...and that usually spells doom for the object of my sartorial love, of course! And then clothes become relics, and they become home wear, or gardening wear, or just rags to wear at the seaside when you go rustic rather than resort - like this pair of heavy linen brown trousers that got discoloured around the knees, but they look like they will never really wear out.

This rotation concept, though economically sound, introduces all sorts of alien factors in my dress: frequency of wear, degree of use, level of utilization etc. But I can't dress thinking of that - if it makes me feel good to wear those trousers today, I'll do it regardless of the fact that I wore them a couple of days before and that there are others hanging in my closet that haven't seen the light of day in weeks: I am punished enough that I misspent money on something I don't enjoy using, why add the aggravation of forcing myself to wear it? I learn my lessons quickly, no need for flagellation
I'll give any piece of dress a day's rest, out of respect and as an act of gratitude for good service, so it can regain some shape on the hanger or tree, dry up, get some fresh air - but that is pure hygiene. Other than that, I keep my mind free from rotation when I reach out for clothes in the morning, lest it should get me dizzy and ruin my dress...

[Rowly]

if it makes me feel good to wear those trousers today, I'll do it regardless of the fact that I wore them a couple of days before and that there are others hanging in my closet that haven't seen the light of day in weeks

Costi, your words ring so true with me. I tend to wear my favourite clothes to the exclusion of others. It's not so much maintenance that motivates me to force myself to rotate. It is to combat my own weakness as a collector and hoarder. I love the thrill of the chase with bespoke clothes. The research, the anticipation etc. Once the garment is hanging in my house the chase is over and my attention is focused on the next project. While this process is reoccurring...I still can be seen in my one or two favourites. So, I have to force myself to rotate around my wardrobe to overcome my laziness rather than being motivated by frugality. I wonder is this a common problem or just a personal idiosyncrasy?

[Costi]

Rowly, let us call it the bachelor syndrome: as they say, the best is always the next

I combat this with my imagination - you have no idea how many suits and coats and shoes I have made up in my mind to the last detail, so I can get them out of my system and never have to do them in reality. I have lost count of the full closets in my imaginary worlds. When one of these projects still appeals to me after I have made (and worn it ) in my mind, then I consider having it made for real. Almost every piece of dress that I have had made without being sure I wanted it ended up as closet decoration. I have a handsome stack of cloth at home and I never a take a piece to my tailor until I am sure I WANT something made of it - something definite, with a clear idea and purpose. If I just have it made for the sake of giving the tailor some work, even if the result is good I rarely wear it: I have a hard time finding the mood for it, it has no emotional association; I do not know why I have it and what I am supposed to do with it

Does this make any sense, or are both ripe for the madhouse?

[Rowly]

Rowly, let us call it the bachelor syndrome: as they say, the best is always the next

I combat this with my imagination - you have no idea how many suits and coats and shoes I have made up in my mind to the last detail, so I can get them out of my system and never have to do them in reality. I have lost count of the full closets in my imaginary worlds. When one of these projects still appeals to me after I have made (and worn it ) in my mind, then I consider having it made for real. Almost every piece of dress that I have had made without being sure I wanted it ended up as closet decoration. I have a handsome stack of cloth at home and I never a take a piece to my tailor until I am sure I WANT something made of it - something definite, with a clear idea and purpose. If I just have it made for the sake of giving the tailor some work, even if the result is good I rarely wear it: I have a hard time finding the mood for it, it has no emotional association; I do not know why I have it and what I am supposed to do with it

Does this make any sense, or are both ripe for the madhouse?

Costi, it makes perfect sense. I was going to respond to some of what you say, and then I realized none of your quote could be left out (including the madhouse bit )

you have no idea how many suits and coats and shoes I have made up in my mind to the last detail, so I can get them out of my system and never have to do them in reality.

I have imagined and anticipated certain outfits to the point that I actually ordered them to get the obsession out of my system --luckily, no real disasters to date but your method is much more ideal and adds a reality structure to the decision making process. By getting your imagination to play devil's advocate, you are less likely to make impetuous choices, and are more likely to get it right.

If I just have it made for the sake of giving the tailor some work, even if the result is good I rarely wear it:

I have been guilty of this to a point, but there has been some method in my madness

or are both ripe for the madhouse?

.....This is because

• I have been building a valuable rapport with my tailor as well as my wardrobe, and wanted to get it well established.
  I am aware that I am lucky to have him and that the downside of his lifetime's experience is that he could quit at any time.
  The price is not just for the end product for me. I find my visits with my tailor to be very pleasurable and therapeutic, and I enjoy the process of our collaborations.

In general, I feel that we might well be the last generation to enjoy the world of bespoke tailoring, and want to make the most of it. However, the newbie excitement is starting to plateau out and I am currently trying to establish a more mature and balanced mindset towards my future orders. In fact, my tailor is actually encouraging me to do this. So, my current focus is on developing patience. My next order will be one that not only am I sure I want, but that I am sure that I'm sure!

I have a handsome stack of cloth at home and I never a take a piece to my tailor until I am sure I WANT something

This is the most important lesson for me. Until now, I have ordered from books and swatches. Recently, I had my first experience of visiting Smith Woollens and looking at the actual bolts of cloth. What a difference! How different the large piece looks from the small swatch. How much easier it is to rule things in or out, with the risk of a mishit almost eliminated. This is the way forward for me...and I note that you have long since been advocating selecting from actual bolts of cloth. I had the eureka moment on a recent visit to my tailor. I had ordered a POW from the Universal book. I thought the heavier weight made it look almost tweedy, and could be worn as an odd jacket...so I had decided on peaked lapels, slanted pockets etc. Luckily, he hadn't started cutting it and when I saw the cloth I changed to notched lapels and toned it down to a less sporty/fussy design.
Wait and be sure, is my new motto. Thanks again for the great insights!...Rowly

[Costi]

Thanks again for the great insights!...

Thank you, too, Rowly - not just our visits to the tailor are therapeutic, but some LL discussions, too. As long as we can keep our madness out of the doctors' hands and work it out among ourselves, we're free to roam the streets! (in search of new cloth, yes!)

I am aware that I am lucky to have him and that the downside of his lifetime's experience is that he could quit at any time.

You can always tell him that his resignation is not accepted! He might keep working for you for fear...

The price is not just for the end product for me. I find my visits with my tailor to be very pleasurable and therapeutic, and I enjoy the process of our collaborations.

How nice is that... +1!

[BirdofSydney]

Inevitably, there is a slight tendency to over-wear one's favourites. I do it with ties, in particular, and suits. I have a few that I prefer to wear in court, and as my practice gets busier and busier, they creep in almost every week.

To answer the initial question, eighteen suits seems on the high side. How about a dozen: six in year-round wool; three each in summer and winter fabrics? Plus a dinner suit and an overcoat or two, and odd jackets after that.

[davidhuh]

To answer the initial question, eighteen suits seems on the high side.

Dear Bird of Sydney,

with 42 Michael Alden flannels being poured on us very soon? You cannot be serious

I don't think there is a recipe. Most men have to find out. Many will wear suits more often once they have something decent in their wardrobe. May be it is like ladies and handbags?

cheers, david