How tight are the shoulders on your new bespoke jackets?

[Guest]

Now that is a very fine all round outfit - and worn with such panache.
NJS

[Guest]

I simply think suits made to be worn and not just modelled on a catwalk need not only look good, but also allow the wearer to be reasonably comfortable in everyday life - from seating at a table to, yes, tying one's laces. This obviously doesn't mean a sack, but a nicely shaped garment that follows the body's contour without distorting it - but also without clinging to it like underwear. A good tailor (and it is not a matter of being English or Italian) knows how to build fulness where it is needed without compromising the coat's look.
When I see such strait coats being worn I recall the silly joke where the doctor accidentally gives his patient a laxative instead of cough pills. Revisiting him after a few days the doctor notes with satisfaction that the cough stopped, but the patient assures him he simply no longer dares cough.
Thank you all for signing your posts.

Costi

[Guest]

That's a Tommy Cooper type of joke. Now he was a genius. All that he had to do was walk on - and they'd be rolling on the floor.
NJS

[Guest]

From a technical point of view, a tight coat doesn't have to be uncomfortable.
The key points are the shape and the depth of the scye and the shape and width of the sleeve.
Ready made coats are usually cut with a deeper armhole to match many types of arms.
A deeper armhole itself is not the big problem, but the matching sleeve is nowadays cut too tight and narrow. It does look nice and clean when standing still, but becomes terribly unpleasant when one moves his arms, pushing the front part forward and making the back feel tight.
All this can(and must) be avoided with bespoke garments, but, as you can see from these images, it's not always the case.

The back is way too tight, and so is the sleeve. Altogether resulting in this:


Correctly taken measurements are the basis, as you'll all know. To those values a certain amount of width is added, depending on the tailoring house it's something between 16 to 20 cm in the chest, 7- 10 cm in the waist and similar on the hips.
The important measurement for the scye depth is this:

To this about 2 or 3 cm are added to have the final scye depth.
As I mentioned before, the shape of the armhole and the sleeve are very important also. If the under sleeve doesn't match the armhole, the coat might feel uncomfortable in that region when moving the arms and the back may not look nice.

To achieve a nice roll of the back, the following is needed:
Before applying the shoulder pad, the desired amount of roll width is basted away from the back:

Then the pad is applied and the basting removed. The result should be something like this:

If special room for the blades is required it can be gained by shaping the back with the iron. This can be easily done on softer fabrics, but may cause problems with harder and stiffer fabrics. In this case a dart in the shoulder seam of the back would be best choice, or else the result will be a visible tension between the blades.
Another thing to mention is the shape of the armhole at the front and the width of the front part itself. Although the armhole is correct the coat can still feel too tight when your arm has to "fight" against the front part.
Any good and experienced tailor should and will take all this into consideration.



SG

[Guest]

Thanks, SG, for adding these details. For you or others: does the stiffness of even a minimalist shoulder structure contribute to the lifting of the jacket shoulder up off the person when the arms are raised? In other words, if there is adequate fullness in the blades, a properly high armhole and plenty of cloth in the sleevehead, can one achieve a quiet jacket when raising the arms even if there is a layer or two of horsehair etc. in the shoulder "pad"? Or does that structure want to move up as a unit if any part of it is raised?

In Astaire's suit jackets (I noticed this effect in "Carefree," for instance) he often seems to have almost no detectable shoulder pad but a full sleevehead with a lot of apparently unsupported "roping," which adds "give" when moving the arms. Those jackets stay put better than just about any I've ever seen, and I'd like to better understand all the components of that effect. The backs on the jackets in that film (in the psychologist's office scenes, for instance) seem very clean but never restrictive.

- couch

[Guest]

to couch:

technically speaking: "YES"! It is possible to make a coat that is hardly moving when lifting/ moving the arms.
Only "problem" is to make the coat look good.
It starts with the material, which has to be soft, so the tailor can get a lot of width into the sleeve head(RTW has 6-7% of the armhole girth, while in bespoke it can be up to 15- 20%). This will result in the roping of the sleeve head that you mentioned.

Important for the ability to lift the arms without lifting the coat correspondingly is the length under the arm and at the rear. If added to the sleeve it will allow a wide range of movement without restrictions, but the drawback is an unclean look when arms are down.
As for the structure: A softer construction will most likely stay closer to the shoulder, while a hard version will be pushed towards the neck.

I guess that Fred Astaire's shoulders do have some padding, because they are cut wider than his natural shoulders.


To answer the question about the clean back I would need a picture of Mr. Astaire in that scene. If it isn't a dancing scene the sleeve can be cut smaller, so the back will look better.



SG

[Guest]

Schneider Gott, these observations are invaluable. I may translate them into Spanish and give them to my tailor in Buenos Aires when I return there in August. Thank you.

[Guest]

SG, these observations are invaluable. I may translate them into Spanish and give them to my tailor in Buenos Aires when I return there in August. Thank you.

RWS

(I forgot that this was "Anonymous" posting.)

[Guest]

the armholes on that full dress are extremely high. far higher than an english high armhole. its doubtful if he would wear it that extremely high on his personal clothes.
i doubt if anyone could be comfortable with such an extreme. i would guess these cloths were only used for filming.
high is fine but not that high.
the jacket is very close fitted. did any notice how loose the trousers are? check the seated picture look at all the fullness. and its not just the pleats.