Cary Grant

[Guest]

Sorry for not adding my name to the previous post. I am often forgetful of this in the anonymous Q & A forum.

Trey

[Guest]

I recently ordered a gray flannel suit with Astaire's in mind.
It came out nothing like the original. Some of that is my fault for not being built like Astaire, but most of the fault is because I didn't bother to communicate to the tailor what I wanted. I did end up with a perfectly nice gray flannel suit, though.

dopey

This is interesting, dopey.

What got lost in the translation between your image of the Astaire suit and your instructions to your tailor?

This may help lead us to some understanding of why the classic look of the past simply cannot be duplicated today. Or indeed why it is so difficult to translate an idea into a physical reality with tailors.

[Guest]

I should have been clearer in my post.
I transmitted nothing about my intentions to my tailor. I just ordered a gray flannel suit and said "DB, please" My only other instructions were stitched shoulder and lapped seams on the trousers. I said nothing about how I would love a suit that looks like Astaire's in that photo. My telepathy is not as good as it once was.

My biggest complaint is that the lapels are a bit skimpy. I have another DB from the same tailor (Raphael) that I like much better. I hadn't really noticed the difference until I had the suit for a while and was wondering why I didn't like it as much as the first one. I can't for th elife of me figure out why the lapels are so different, except for the fact that I probably didn't have a real paper pattern (and may not still).

dopey.

[Guest]

I have been involved in other various threads on the Lounge regarding Grant's NNW suit. It is similar to the suit that he also wore in Hitchcock's To Catch a Thief. I like the suit's understated simplicity, from its almost indescribable gray/blue hue (which I have unsuccessfully searched for) to it's perfect drape. I like the higher armholes, slightly elongated coat length, coat pockets without flaps, and high waisted side adjuster single pleated trousers. Perhaps I most like how effortlessly Grant pulls off the ventless back look and that he draws attention to this simple, yet perfect suit by not wearing a pocket square.

The ventless back of the jacket is a look rarely seen today and certainly not a classic East Coast look. I also like how classy the look is when paired with another Grant/Hitchcock classic look, the grayish/silver understated tie and the point collar white shirt. This look could take you from the cornfields of Indiana (actually filmed in California) to the funeral in To Catch a Thief, while all the while still looking good.

I think that this pretty much summarises the magnetism of this suit.

To me, it is attractive for its long, lean, conical look with perfect drape and ease.

The lapels are narrow, the sleeves are narrow and the body of the jacket is slightly boxy without excessive shaping. There is no drape in the chest nor shoulders.

The trousers hang wonderfully, neither baggy nor excessivly narrow with no break yet the cuffs do not ride high around the ankles when he walks, nor sag when standing.

Everything appears to be perfectly suspended from his lanky frame.

The black loafers and greyish socks finish off a sort of monotone of soothing colors.

Also the curved shirt collar appears so soft as to be without interlining, almost like a BD collar.

It is, perhaps the perfect minimalist lounge suit and CG wears it to perfection with his heigth, slim build and ease of movement.

[Guest]

The black loafers and greyish socks finish off

Does he wear black loafers? I remember the shoes to be a wonderful pair of brown Oxfords. I can't imagine CG wearing loafers.

/G

[Guest]

I can only imagine that this cloth with such ease of drape and flow to be silk.

I don't think that mohair, or wool would provide that kind of movement.

[Guest]

My biggest complaint is that the lapels are a bit skimpy. I have another DB from the same tailor (Raphael) that I like much better. I hadn't really noticed the difference until I had the suit for a while and was wondering why I didn't like it as much as the first one. I can't for th elife of me figure out why the lapels are so different, except for the fact that I probably didn't have a real paper pattern (and may not still).

I don't personally care for broad, rounded lapels on either DB or SB. The narrower, minimalist lapel is so much more elegant.

Perhaps Raph thought you look better with a narrower lapel. Have you asked him?

[Guest]

My biggest complaint is that the lapels are a bit skimpy. I have another DB from the same tailor (Raphael) that I like much better. I hadn't really noticed the difference until I had the suit for a while and was wondering why I didn't like it as much as the first one. I can't for th elife of me figure out why the lapels are so different, except for the fact that I probably didn't have a real paper pattern (and may not still).

I don't personally care for broad, rounded lapels on either DB or SB. The narrower, minimalist lapel is so much more elegant.

Perhaps Raph thought you look better with a narrower lapel. Have you asked him?

The lapels on the Astaire suit are a bit over-broad, but I like the shape. The odd thing about the lapels on the gray flannel DB is that they are narrower than on the other DB he made for me. I haven't asked him why, but will when next I stop in. I much prefer the version on the first one.

dopey

[Guest]

Regarding CG's shoes in NNW, when wearing his suit he wears brown oxfords.

In th hospital he is given a completely different outfit altogether. Gray trousers with a black belt, Brooks Brothers polo collar button down shirt, and black loafers.

Trey

[Guest]

The lapels on the Astaire suit are a bit over-broad, but I like the shape. The odd thing about the lapels on the gray flannel DB is that they are narrower than on the other DB he made for me. I haven't asked him why, but will when next I stop in. I much prefer the version on the first one.

dopey

Lapel width is one of my favorite topics, and I’ve discussed it elsewhere at length. All in all, it comes down to personal preference and, especially, attitude; and wider lapels have been termed f___ you lapels with some justification. Nonetheless, that is my preference. I am a five foot ten inch, 165 pound, 42 regular; and find that, with a soft natural to slightly extended shoulder, a lapel that measures 5 inches in width at the tip of its peak gives me the proportion that you see in the Astaire photograph. Astaire’s DB coats carried a keystone button placement so that the lapel rolled, by necessity, to the bottom button. My DB jackets are all 6 X 2, but I invariably wear them buttoned at the bottom button which achieves the same long roll effect. My DB suits, all purchased more than a couple of years ago, met these specifications off the rack, but the two manufacturers I most favor have both narrowed their DB lapels to around 4 inches on their most recent RTW models. Consequently, when I recently needed a new navy blazer, I had one of those manufacturers do it MTM, widening the lapels back to the 5 inch standard I prefer and suppressing the waist by one inch from the stock model. Once again, I have the coat I want. Elsewhere, I compared it to the coat of this suit as worn by Luciano Barbera, my modern style icon, almost but not quite up to Astaire:

http://bp3.blogger.com/_qjpwnPW4c1o/Ris ... -h/LB1.jpg

[Guest]

Forgot to sign the Astaire lapel treatise above. I may have a f___ you attitude when it comes to my lapels, but I'm not ashamed of it.

oldog/oldtrix

[Guest]

Maybe, then, to underscore the point, you might consider a change of name to olddog/oldf__?
NJS

[Guest]

Maybe, then, to underscore the point, you might consider a change of name to olddog/oldf__?
NJS

Done (at least when it comes to lapels).

oldog/oldf___

[Guest]

That's a nice picture of Barbera though the lapels are excessively broad for my taste.

What makes the CG suit stand out is the slim, lean line of the whole affair, a silhouette which seems to have been abandoned in bespoke circles with current preference for broad, bellied lapels, high notch and wide jacket collar.