DB Limited Edition Overcoat

[alden]

Celebrating the DB Overcoat and Designing one

There are probably pages and pages of reasons that could be penned to explain the disappearance of the Overcoat from the streets of our cities. They used to be omnipresent. So many images from the past show city streets awash in Fedoras and Topcoats. Both are near extinction.



To many men, memories of the magnificent relics of Masculine Elegance are mixed with memories of equally elegant places: opera houses, concert halls, bars, restaurants, and nightclubs. These places, the ones that previously encouraged all who entered them to dress in an elegant manner, have lost their capacity to inspire. They have been assimilated into the general "laissez-aller" that mistakes sloppiness for comfort, Fashion for Mode and trends for true style.



Today, most men have been brainwashed into wearing lightweight suits in Winter in combination with some sort of outerwear. As such whatever overcoat's use there remains to speak about is largely restricted to simple and brutish protection from the elements (a thing that is probably better assured by a slew of modern tech fabrics, insulators and linings.) The status of the overcoat as a major action verb in the grammar of Masculine Elegance has all but vanished and it needs to be renewed.



And who better to rekindle interest in this legendary garment, than the body of Gentlemen here assembled? The londonlounge, from its very inception, has been an active and practical Laboratory of Elegance. While others are content with the pervasive internet bla-bla, bromides, polemics, and the school of blind leading the sight impaired, the londonlounge and its members have imagined, and recreated actual sartorial works. And this membership continues to demand to be known by its deeds.



The design of a modern overcoat, inspired by the great works of the past, but practical for today's use is a challenge fitting our group. A team of talented artisans has been assembled to bring the coat to life as a londonlounge Limited Edition once the design has been perfected. Research is under way in London and Paris in this regards.

Let's hear from you. What is your reaction to the DB overcoats pictured in this post? Feel free to post pictures of Overcoats that inspire you and tell us the reasons why they do so.

Best regards,

M Alden

[Alias]

I don't have any experience with db overcoats, but that isn't to say that I don't want one. I suppose the biggest issues for me are fit and material. OTR overcoats are too big at the waist and too low at the armholes. I would like to try Loro Piana's Storm System fabric for a coat that's light yet weatherproof but I would be open to other suggestions. I'm not going to spring for an all-wool overcoat, though. I used to wear one and it was pretty heavy.

[TVD]

As late summer approaches, maybe already in a few weeks time, every spell of chilly weather will remind me what pleasure winter can be. Not the grey, damp, depressing English variety, but the crisp frost I remember from the continent, sometimes even cloaked in an ermine coat of snow. One of the chief reasons will be that I can wear topcoats again.

Some may consider them cumbersome. This is usually the consequence of chosing the wrong coat (too heavy / light) or relying on a ready made product. As a consequence, the whole weight will rest on a tiny area around the neck / shoulder pulling downwards, rather than fitting properly.

There is no greater devide than between the elegance and comfortable ease of a well coated man and the homeless, miserably damp and chilling absence of this garnment. Congratulations for raising this important matter, I am awaiting progress with great curiosity.

[tteplitzmd]

I own four bespoke single breasted overcoats, the distinction with topcoats I believe is the weight:

covert cloth overcoat (Porter & Harding 22-24 ounce) with "railroading" stitching

covert cloth topcoat (Smith & Co./W Bill 17 ounce) with vevet collar also railroading stitching

tweed raglan sleeve topcoat with balmacaan collar (John G. Hardy 20 ounce cheviot tweed)

pure cashmere camel color SB overcoat (Harrison's of Edinburgh 20 ounce) with removeable lining

If anyone would be so kind as to explain how to insert a photo into these postings, I would be very gratified.

Terry A. Teplitz

[Guest]

So much of what we wear is determined by our lifestyle in terms of driving, walking, the space between buildings, the average temperature of buildings. I remember a 2 month period I spent in Craiova, Romania when no warm garment was too warm. I even had a hat custom made of nutria in the style of that region, which I stil wear on the coldest of days. But alas, in Philadelphia, where I rush from car to hospital and back, and retail here offers none of the adventure of Madison Avenue (which gets quite chilly in winter), to be able to enjoy these garments would be a treat. Yet, those pictures are beautiful...

[Mark Seitelman]

Lovely photos. In photo # 1, was that Douglas Fairbanks, Jr., with his father (right)?

I have a couple of DB polo coats. On one the button stance is a touch low, therefore, a little too much of one's front is exposed to the cold.

My impression that the DB overcoat and topcoat with set-in sleeves are becoming rarer. It seems that raglan overcoat has overtaken the field.

One plus of the raglan coat is that it is made to be buttoned to top. Although I have had buttons placed at the top of my DB coats they were not meant to be worn the top buttoned.

I have a James Montgomery Flagg poster of the 1920's showing overcoats, and I shall try to photograph it.

Of all of the coats shown, I like the rich brown one the best.

[exigent]

I own a Scottish tweed double-breasted Greatcoat (24-ounce green herringbone with wine overplaid; 50 inches long), and cannot imagine life without the beautiful old thing. My Chesterfield is single-breasted and so is my Covert Coat. But I did until not too long ago possess a superb double-breasted navy cashmere top coat (don't ask: it's just too pathetic). In addition, I have two full-length raincoats, a Burberry Fly-Front and a proper double-breasted Aquascutum trench coat. And, until I clapped eyes on this thread, it never really dawned on me that the tailored overcoat was on its last legs, so to speak.... There isn't a day goes by when the inexorable downhill slide doesn't get more rapid.

[pemazel]

Gentlemen,

I happen to own the blue overcoat worn by the left man in the last picture (mine might be a trifle longer). It is made by Loro Piana for Braun in Hamburg. It is a mixture from wool and cashmere.And yes, I wear it too seldom ...

Paul

[tteplitzmd]

Mark,

You mention an underappreciated point about closing the top of these overcoats with a button. While you get a double layer of cloth around the torso with a DB coat, the open throat with DB and many SB overcoats is an issue. My raglan/balmacaan coat is very good in cold/windy weather in part because of the collar closure.

Another point, I had my first covert coat made in NYC by Chipp, they did a beautiful job, and years later I got the Smith/Bill lighter covert cloth for a velvet collar lighter variant. I used a different tailor, and they pointed out that on the inside where the hidden buttons are, that I could benefit from having more cloth on the inside (I am not explaining it well), and that it would be warmer to use more cloth as an insulator and liner, so I said yes, of course.
With a DB coat you get that double layer automatically. On the other hand I am only 5'6" and DB would reduce my stature further to say, that of Edward G. Rabinowitz (Robinson).

Terry A. Teplitz

[Mark Seitelman]

Terry:

I saw an overcoat at Oxxford which had a solid tweed on the exterior and a checked tweed throughout the interior in lieu of the traditional bemberg lining. The only place that bemberg was used was at the shoulders and the sleeves.

[Etutee]

Celebrating the DB Overcoat and Designing one

Let's hear from you. What is your reaction to the DB overcoats pictured in this post? Feel free to post pictures of Overcoats that inspire you and tell us the reasons why they do so.

Dear Mr. Alden,
What a spectacular idea! Since you asked for our opinions...

and I know it maybe a bit too old for some members...but how about the long lost DB
"Paddock Model" in blue or grey with proper waist line, collar & cuffs. Its been ages since I have seen one. Not a chance anyone could ever mistake that for a RTW one.

I would like to hear your thoughts.

sincerely
etutee

[alden]

Dear Etutee

I thought this project would interest you! Lets try and find a picture or illustration of a Paddock DB.

The remarks in this thread are excellent.

It is primordial, as Mark points out, that a man be covered. That is why many choose the 3 button, 2 button with waistcoat and DB as staples. These are the most elegant forms of dress and the most protective as well. The proper buttoning point in the DB will help considerably to achieve good body coverage. It certainly will be taken into consideration in the design.

TVD is judicious to point out that a bespoke OC, properly fit, will relieve the wearer of any potential discomforts.

The weight of the cloth used depends clearly on the part of the world where one lives or travels. What interests us at this point is the design. The cloth choice can be made individually as a function of use.

The raglan has become pervasive and its a bit of a shame. It has its place in the repertoire of fine dressing in tweeds, coverts, or, for those of a Tyrolian bent, loden cloth. The classic city coat should be set sleeves and not raglan.

A picture of a vintage Scottish great coat would be interesting, Monsieur Exigent. If you happen to make a suitable cliche, please post same here. The "Great coat" is a design that is in the back of some of our minds.

Best regards to all the assembled defenders of the OC!

M Alden

[exigent]

I will endeavor, Mr Alden, to post a photograph of my double-breasted tweed longcoat (probably a more apt description of the thing), but I beg your indulgence, as I am singularly incompetent with lensed instruments.

This project fascinates me: would the overcoat in question actually be created at some stage? If so, I would suggest that--small--contributions from club members could be used to reward a willing artisan.... Merely a suggestion, mind you, but I should be delighted to contribute to such an effort.

[Etutee]

Lets try and find a picture or illustration of a Paddock DB.

M Alden

Dear Mr. Alden & other members you asked for it and here it is!

This is the long lost (but ever tasteful) paddock model DB overcoat in all its glory. This is from Spring of 35'.



Worn here for the most formal of day time occasions; The Easter Parade. Underneath is a morning coat with chalk stripe trousers, white linen spats, black oxfords, and the starched shirt with a rounded wing collar.

Note the presence of cap-toe on the elder gent's oxfords. As strong as the temptation may be...for the sake of simplicity, I will not discuss the outfit on the left. This discussion is about Overcoats and let’s keep it that way.

Even though it may not be "practical" for many members as too old fashioned or whatever other reasons may be...there is a beautiful history lesson in this illustration. Regardless, even if this coat strikes you as un-usual...kindly look at it for a moment or two. There is about as much history and tradition in it as the original riding coat or the evening tailcoat. Look at the front of this coat, and you will realize this is a direct derivative of the riding DB coat (not to mention its resemblance to the tailcoat front), except in the original riding coat version there was nothing below the buttons at the front.

Its called Paddock model for a reason. Naturally it was worn by the Horsey set and as such "Paddock" styling usually refers to the higher button stance whether in Lounge Suits* or the overcoats....both SB & DB models.

* The Paddock style Lounge Suit is also with a higher button stance (more than often SB 2-buttons), where the bottom button is at the waist line. Somewhat similar to what Duke of Windsor used to wear (high 2-button SB) but with a slightly higher button stance. SB overcoat in this style is also very similar. Of course this makes perfect sense when you consider its origin and roots.

Note the black velvet collar, presence of cuffs and a flared skirt of the coat. Observe the waist line seam below the buttons of DB front. Last but not least...take note of the slanted pockets in observance of classic horsey tradition. However, straight pockets were also observed.

Now, this would be half a lesson without having a look at its back. Actually I had to wait a few years before I found a picture of its back. Here it is from Fall of 36'.



Again for the sake of this simplicity we will confine ourselves to the coat on the right. Instead of the usual deep center vent, this coat usually carried two deep inverted side pleats giving a flare to the skirt. These inverted pleats eliminate the necessity of a center vent, thereby giving legs plenty of room without airing them to the cold winds.

So...there you have it. As they (AA/Esky) once mentioned it...that men's clothing articles go and come back in cycles such that when they arrive after a decent amount of time, they are so old that they are as new. That is most certainly true for this style of overcoat. If you showed this to people on the street or even sales people at shops...nine out of ten will tell you this is a trendy new style of coat maybe.

Now do you gents think this could ever be mistaken for a RTW overcoat...hmm?

Sincerely
etutee

[Alias]

Etutee,

That is the coat I want, in that exact color.

Edit: Oh man I'm really loving the pleats/vents in the back.

Edit 2: I have a question. How will this Limited Edition coat be realized? Will a LE coat fabric be offered for those who wish to use their own tailors, or will the coat itself be offered? (Or neither?)