Teach me about vests.

[alden]

Perhaps I am being unfair, but I have low confidence in the ability of any Neapolitan tailor (and perhaps any Italian tailor) to cut either brace trousers or a vest. Ambrosi has told me flatly that he won't cut brace trousers, and a friend of mine was told the same thing by Rubinacci.

Neapolitan (and Italian) tailors rarely are asked to make brace cut trousers because their customers are belted. Ambrosi has made many wonderful pair of brace trousers for me, though it should be said, he had a pattern to work from and a few pairs of SR cut trousers to study. I suspect that lacking these aids, he will prefer to default to what he knows best.

I am not up to date on the arrangements at Rubinacci, but for many years Ambrosi was the main trouser maker for the firm. That might explain their reluctance as well. If Rubinacci has evolved so much into a brand that they have lost their tailoring skills, I would be very much surprised though it is not out of the question. To be commercially successful on the scale they seek may require imposing formulas and shortcuts. I hope this is not the case. And should the shift in business model occur, it may have more to do with the drying up of great tailoring talent. You simply cannot mass produce bespoke clothing, it is a business endeavor that simply has limits these days.

The remaining old time Italian tailors I have met are capable of making anything and making it extraordinarily well. As many of them have told me over the years (and very recently here in Sicily), they sometimes need a customer who challenges them to do their best work, be inventive and create special clothes. A man who has the right bespeaking skills can get anything he wants done and done well with this aging (and vanishing) breed of tailor.

A case in point, one of my tailors was challenged by a client to make a full white tie rig for a wedding in Rome. He had never made one and neither had any of the remaining tailors in the area, who refused the order. This artisan took the challenge and made a garment of rare beauty. I had a chance to see the fitting and final product and am now sorely tempted...

Cheers

Michael

[Costi]

Don't resist it!

[radicaldog]

...something I need to give serious consideration given the likely setting of the wedding (Tuscany).

A black tie wedding in Tuscany?

[alden]

A black tie wedding in Tuscany?

RD,

There are so many English, Swiss, German and Americans in Tuscany these days, you have to go towards the border with Lazio, in the Maremma Toscana, to find any toscani That's one of the reasons I moved south.

Con cordiali saluti

Michael

[alden]

Don't resist it!

Costi

I maybe good at somethings but resisting temptation is not one of them...where in the world does one wear white tie anymore?

Michael

[ay329]

delete

[Costi]

Don't resist it!

Costi

I maybe good at somethings but resisting temptation is not one of them...where in the world does one wear white tie anymore?

Michael

Who said anything about wearing it?

Rare occcasions still exist - take the Vienna Opera Ball for example. The question is whether you want to be there...

[alden]

And if you fall prey to the temptation to shine, you’ll never know the understated glow that distinguishes the true gentleman. For, if ever there was a moment to keep details simple and concentrate only on the fit of your clothes, the dinner suit is that moment. You will say a lot about yourself with measured self restraint than by excess.

A case in point, simple and essentially elegant:



Simple fold down collar shirt, black tie, barrel cuff shirt closed with yellow gold (9kt) cufflinks. Nothing complicated, nothing elaborate, nothing inappropriately borrowed from white tie dress no matter the occasion. You can wear this essential DJ style to virtually any event today that calls for black tie and be perfectly well dressed.

Cheers

[manton]

Bill, page 104 of the April/May '09 issue of The Rake has a picture of a perfect black tie vest.

If need be, I will scan it for you.

[windchildgmt]

Manton, sorry to have to revive this old thread. Would you still be able to scan the vest you mentioned above? It would be most appreciated.

Thanks!
Grace

[alden]

Simple fold down collar shirt, black tie, barrel cuff shirt closed with yellow gold (9kt) cufflinks. Nothing complicated, nothing elaborate, nothing inappropriately borrowed from white tie dress no matter the occasion. You can wear this essential DJ style to virtually any event today that calls for black tie and be perfectly well dressed.

This is sort of what I meant by the description above (sorry for the bad picture):



Cheers

Michael

[ScholarsInk]

Mr Alden, when does that page come from?

[Jordan Marc]

Gentlemen:

There is another possibility for a waistcoat to be worn with a black-tie ensemble that is worth your consideration. In terms of cut, it is nearly identical to No. 868 on the vest chart supplied by Michael Alden.
Unlike the waistcoat pictured, which is clearly intended for a white-tie rig, the vest I'll describe lower down should be worn over a white birdseye pique dress shirt with a soft turndown collar, French cuffs, and a black bow-tie.

Black-tie evening wear usually comes in two or three flavors, a six-button double-breasted two-piece dinner suit in black barathea wool, or a midnight blue wool-and-mohair blend, with peak lapels faced in either black ribbed grosgrain or navy blue silk-satin (for dressy stand-up occasions), or a one-button single-breasted three-piece dinner suit with peak lapels in a black Campbell twill or a pick & pick worsted with silk satin-faced lapels (for post-concert galas or after theatre suppers).

Formal is formal, I suppose, but whatever happened to dressy dinner parties at home? This is where
the alternative vest takes it turn in the spotlight; it's your chance to add a soupcon of individuality. Picture this in your mind's eye: a black-and-white puppytooth check waistcoat made of soft saxony wool.
Instead of hand pick stitching along the edges of the lapels to make them lie flat, there are small intricately tied knots interspersed with finely corded thread, all on edge and made of black silk twist thread, the same kind used by tailors to make handsewn buttonholes. The quartet of four-hole buttons at
the waist are made of polished black horn, and there are elastic hold-down tabs that button inside the waistband to prevent the vest from riding up when seated.

For jewellery to complete the ensemble I'd choose a set of irridescent grey pearl studs, companioned by somewhat larger matching double-sided cufflinks, all of which are dotted with a tiny white natural seed pearl on center and surrounded by thin octagonal gold borders in relief, this a dress set dating from the 1920s that was bequeathed to me by my great grandfather.

JMB

[alden]

Mr Alden, when does that page come from?

The vest illustration comes from the 1936 catalogue of a make to measure tailoring firm in NY and Chicago called J.H. Taylor & Co.

Cheers

Michael