The Huntsman Holdall and the LL Gun Club

[dopey]

From Huntsman

. . . a new twist on the sports jacket, affectionately known as the Huntsman Hold All. . . . The coat is cut to our classic one button house style, but features a half belt on the back with four pinch pleats. The pocket details on the coat include patch pockets, with inverted pleats [Ed.: held in place by a half belt], a feature extended to the breast welt, as well as a right ticket pocket with zip. The interior details on the coat include a poacher's pocket and two in-breast pockets with flaps and buttons. The final detail is a detachable kidney that fastens to the collar, allowing for the coat to be closed up to the neck in cold weather, keeping out blustery chills . . .

I left out some of the explanation of why this would be useful to have, though Huntsman focused on passports and airline ticket, not shotgun shells as you might have imagined.

I don't think a one-button closure is really the thing you want if you also expect to need to close the throat up against the wind and cold. I also don't know whether I like an inverted pleat welt breast pocket and would prefer a patch there instead.

Huntsman's circular showed the back of the coat, in what appeared to be a high-twist brownish lovat or maybe a covert. They also suggested it would look particularly nice in one of their house tweeds.

What do you think of the design, and what do you think of the LL Gun Club check for this?

[Concordia]

I'd like to see this design-- it sound useful although the pleated back is more of a statement than I normally care to make.

Also, with all those pinch and inverted pleats, it runs the risk of being a very bulky jacket if made from the Gun Club tweed.

[dopey]

I'd like to see this design-- it sound useful although the pleated back is more of a statement than I normally care to make.

Also, with all those pinch and inverted pleats, it runs the risk of being a very bulky jacket if made from the Gun Club tweed.

They would say very roomy, I bet.

[Cantabrigian]

I like the idea a lot. Though I can't imagine why anyone but Huntsman would want to make it a one-button as opposed to three.

But a coat like that seems a little too heavily detailed for a busy, small-scale pattern cloth like the a gun club check.

I realize that this may be very much the opposite of how it was historically but whenever I see a gun check jacket, it's always a business casual garment. I'd find it mildly jarring (if I noticed) to see a lot of "action" details on a cloth that I associate with a city-lite cloth.

[couch]

Odd how things and threads overlap . . . . Yesterday I was watching the last couple of episodes (season 4) of the Fry-Laurie Jeeves and Wooster. One of Bertie's country suits, which gets considerable screen time, in one or both of those episodes, is a dull lovat green plain tweed with almost exactly this conformation (though 3 buttons, if I recall aright): double inverted pleat on the breast and hip patch pockets, half-belt with back pinch pleats. It lacked the ticket pocket with zip; the poacher's pocket, if present, was not displayed. But I think you'd get a very nice idea of the general effect from this piece.

I agree with Cantab. that there's a lot of shadow and line from all those pleats and patch seams for a bold pattern like the gun club check. One risks op-art dizziness as the pleats open and close. I'd think a plain lovat, covert, herringbone, or a hand-loomed barleycorn or partridge eye pattern (maybe even one of those subtle diamond tweeds in the old AA plates) would work better. Perhaps even a large windowpane tweed with a thin, fairly low-contrast "window" grid.

I agree completely that this kind of jacket makes no sense in a one-button. If it's meant for practical field use (shooting or merely country chores) one button leaves you too exposed to dodgy weather, and if you load the pockets, a single-button closure would allow the weight to shift around too much with movement. If it's meant for casual town and suburban use, one-button makes sense but then so much action detailing risks looking a bit pretentious (as alden has noted of overscaled hacking pockets on town suits). I would think passport and airline tickets could be accommodated with slight modifications to standard inner pockets.

Bertie's version looks fine to me, though I'd probably opt for a plain back. I'd go rich rather than bold on the cloth, and skip the zip ticket pocket. But then, I have a horror of anything resembling cargo pants.

[DD MacDonald]

Couch, a pochers pocket is an internal pocket, sometimes called a "hare pocket". Its where you stuff a pheasant, or a bottle of wine or a newspaper. Very useful thing.

DDM

[dopey]

. . .I realize that this may be very much the opposite of how it was historically but whenever I see a gun check jacket, it's always a business casual garment. I'd find it mildly jarring (if I noticed) to see a lot of "action" details on a cloth that I associate with a city-lite cloth.

This a good observation. A mini gun club check in a smooth finish worsted is one of the most common "casual Friday" items I see. It is certainly a very citified version of the pattern. The LL Gun Club Check is nothing like that.

Back to the original subject, I will point out that you naysayers are succeeding only in inflaming my contrary nature.

[HappyStroller]

Very interesting, DD. Sir, could you care to elaborate a little bit more about the construction of such a poacher's pocket, as I would like to have one added to my seersucker to hold a small bottle of natural spring water while strolling in the parks at mid-day.

Couch, a pochers pocket is an internal pocket, sometimes called a "hare pocket". Its where you stuff a pheasant, or a bottle of wine or a newspaper. Very useful thing.

DDM

[couch]

Couch, a pochers pocket is an internal pocket, sometimes called a "hare pocket". Its where you stuff a pheasant, or a bottle of wine or a newspaper. Very useful thing.

DDM

Thanks, DDM., I'm quite familiar with the poacher's pocket. I was trying (apparently inarticulately) to say that if Bertie's suit had one, it did not come into play (for stuffing said pheasant, wine, newspaper, scarf, or the inevitable purloined pearl necklace into) and therefore, being internal, its existence in that suit remains purely conjectural. The other features dopey described, apart from the zip ticket pocket and the one-button configuration, can be clearly observed by any who might want to make the thought experiment of imagining that model in the LL gun club check, or for that matter see the effect in plain lovat tweed.

Purely as a matter of personal preference, I don't think I'd put an internal pocket as large as a poacher's pocket on a sport coat, but a covert coat is a different matter.

Dopey, inflame away. If anybody could pull it off, you (and Des?) could.

[dopey]

I have scanned the blurb and photo of the Hold All from the newsletter, which culverwood scaled and posted below. Thanks.

[culverwood]

[Concordia]

Thanks to you both.

The front is the part that confuses me, but if they published a photo, there would be no stimulus to inquire at the shop.

[couch]

Concordia and dopey:

Here are the best shots I could get of Bertie's lovat rendition of this design:







The rear is especially hard to capture, as Bertie is usually in rapid motion when seen from the back. But you can see the blade pleats, the pinch pleats, the half-belt, and the topstitching at the seam across the upper back (as also around lapels and other edge seams). Look like leather buttons, too. I hope this is useful.

[HappyStroller]

Things a poacher's pocket could be of use while strolling in a park:-

1. Small bottle of natural spring water;
2. Pack of sandwiches;
3. Newspaper;
4. Compact umbrella;
5. Book;
6. Notepad;
7. Very small notebook computer;
8. A few hundred thousand to a million Chinese Yuan (no checkbooks available in China).

[DD MacDonald]

I've got a hare pocket in a simple overcoat and will post some pictures when I get it back from an alteration. I'm not sure how well it would work on an odd jacket which is much closer to the body than an overgarment. Sandwiches and a flask would work, a water bottle or anything bulky could be carried but would likely feel awkward.

Does anyone have a "holdall", I'd love to see a photo of the front.

DDM