In praise of heavyweight worsteds

[manton]

Gents, until recently I only had one truly heavy worsted suit. I don't even know the weight, as I got it as a close-out and the weight was not marked. it must be at least 14 ounces. That suit has always worn very well, but I never though about why much. Among the stuff that I ordered knowing full well the weight, I had never gone over 13 ounces. Until recently.

Earlier this year I ordered a Smith Woolens 15 ounce twill. You'd think that two measly ounces could not make a difference. Oh, but they do. As wonderful as Lesser 13 is, this cloth really hangs like steel. I have never seen trousers that hang so well, or crease so sharply. Or sleeves that fall so smoothly. I love the way the cloth feels when worn. It's heavy, yes, but not uncomfortable. It just falls into place. It really gives gravity something to work with.

[DD MacDonald]

Well, I give you joy of your suit and urge you to rouse out a camera and share its splendor!

DDM

[alden]

Manton,

For the longest time I never had anything made from less than 13 ounce cloth. There are times in summer in N. Europe when 13 ounce clothing is well advised, like the freezing one in Paris this year.

With 45 degree centigrade weather staring me in the face in the very South of Europe, I have had to improvise with lightweight frescos. So I now have an 8-9 ounce fresco suit, and one in 10 ounces. That’s two for a start. If I can get by with two I will do so.

The cloth you are fortunate enough to be swaddled in today is called “Whole Fleece” from Smith’s. It is indeed 15 ounces and it is also a new cloth being introduced by the excellent cloth merchant in London. My hat is off to David and the team at Smith’s for having the wisdom and courage to introduce such a cloth in today’s dressing marketplace when the Lessers and Holland & Sherrys of the world are letting heavyweight cloth vanish from their stocks bit by bit.

In actuality it is only recently that one would refer to 15 ounces cloth as heavyweight. It was always considered a mid-weight cloth. Heavyweights weighed in at 16-20 ounces in worsteds.

The feeling of wearing a suit made from the hand of an artisan like Frank Shattuck wit this cloth must be pleasurable indeed. And once you get used to wearing proper weight cloth, it is almost impossible to go back. Well maybe until you get into a roasting underground train in NY in summertime that is!

Cheers

[Will]

First come the 15 and 16 ounce cloths. Then you realize you must have one or two unlined jackets to wear while you're in your office lest you sit in a puddle of sweat.

I love heavy cloth outdoors but find it hard to wear inside.

[manton]

I take off my coat in the office. No problem.

[Concordia]

I think that for a lot of these fabrics, 70 degrees F is the breakpoint. If you stand a fair chance of spending much of your day below that mark (and you aren't doing heavy exercise), over 13oz is no problem. Once central heating starts ticking above this, it gets uncomfortable. I do, anyway.

Manton, do you find that lined trousers feel cooler in these weights?

[manton]

I don't really know. I think most of my trousers are lined, at least to the knee. It's not something I ask for, or ask not to be included. I guess I've never had a strong preference either way. So most of what I have is lined, and that's all I am familiar with.

[DFR]

There is undoubted joy in a 15oz cloth with a heavy canvas, good satin lining to the jacket as well as lined trousers.

I have had two such in my life - neither now fit well (my fault not the cutter!) - I really should replace.

Both I might add were three piece with the highest of high rise trousers - one was DB.

[alden]

Are you guys a bunch of orchids over there? I am not much of an environmentalist but it seems to me that heating office buildings to sauna temperatures is a huge waste of energy and money. Try talking to your building superintendent and get the temps turned down. On the old continent, we just don't have the resources or the money to finance heating of this kind. I have never suffered feeling hot in 16-19 ounce cloth that I can remember.

As regards trousers I suggest they be made unlined always. The lining heats in summer and cools in winter. Unless you have problem with pure wool against your skin, keep the trousers as natural as possible. Yes, they will be cooler in summer and warmer in winter.

[kolecho]

I recently went without lining with my trousers, and after a period of "breaking in", I can attest to Alden's remarks.

[Costi]

As regards trousers I suggest they be made unlined always.

Question: is it just another sartorial common place, or is there any truth to the assertion that trouser lining helps preserve a sharp crease and takes most of the tensile force that leads to the cloth bagging at the knees?

[JMurphy]

The lining heats in summer and cools in winter. .....Yes, they will be cooler in summer and warmer in winter.

How do it know?

[DFR]

As regards trousers I suggest they be made unlined always.

Question: is it just another sartorial common place, or is there any truth to the assertion that trouser lining helps preserve a sharp crease and takes most of the tensile force that leads to the cloth bagging at the knees?

Whilst this seems to be a scientific explanation of a sort - there is no doubt that a lining does help the line.

[Guest]

This is a thing I' m repeating forever; I'm starting to think that a flannel less than 14-15 oz is not worth. My last flannel is a vintage in 15-16 oz and is really something else.

Worsteds? I dont really think at those for winter more than Cheviots, Flannels and Tweeds. Only in plain weave, for summer, and "ben ritorti".

I just cannot understand building a house with glass and wasting huge amount of energy to heat and cool. We should start to think about that? Sometime a sweater will do, and wallet and environment will thank.

[masterfred]

Giona, I am entirely in agreement; I find it distressing in the States how many homes and businesses are drastically overheated, with concomitant dry air, in the winter months. I finally scored a small domestic victory a couple of years ago, with the sharp rise in heating oil costs here in America; my wife finally agreed it was absurd to pay for heating a home to over 70 degrees, when a sweater and blankets will answer to warm us up.